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Turtle Swamp shutting its Roslindale beer garden; blames Covid-19

Turtle Swamp Brewing announced today it will be closing its beer garden in the Roslindale Substation next month. Turtle Swamp says it will be open Fridays and Saturdays for the rest of the month and just Saturdays in September, with its last day being Sept. 25, to coincide with the renewed Roslindale Porchfest.

That will leaves Distraction Brewing on Belgrade Avenue for Squaregoers seeking locally brewed beer.

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Comments

Or nimbyism is not hip in Rozzie / JP anymore. I was really happy to see you come to town and, sadly, even happier to see go.

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But I think the fact that a lot of people (raises hand) simply don't want to eat or drink in closed spaces for fun is the real reason here. Same reason I'm lukewarm on checking out the co-work space in the Substation also.

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Went there once at 5 on a Friday afternoon, there were two staffers and zero customers. So yeah.

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Same here. I have a lot of happy pre-pandemic memories at the substation (drinks with friends and family, the Exodus pop-ups, the winter market, amazing concerts by Music at the Substation), but I just haven't felt comfortable drinking or dining on-premises anywhere. We've continued to support both local breweries by purchasing to-go.

I hope whatever eventually fills the space is something that can function as a community space. I used to love stopping by for a post-work drink and seeing neighbors gather to celebrate birthdays, anniversaries etc. Folks of all ages enjoying the beautiful space. Hopefully it won't remain empty for too long.

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Bummer. It was a super cool space and I was optimistic there'd finally be a permanent use, but I can't imagine how bad COVID messed them up.

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Suing to stop seniors from having affordable housing in the city.

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Trying not to go out of business because the politically connected use their connections in city government to build an enormous structure that would shut you down. One to which the courts are likely to force changes due to the impossibility of safely constructing on the site.

They permitted them to build right up to the property line which would force Turtle to shut down for safety concerns for people below the construction.

I can see why they would like to have concessions allowing them to not lose their life's investment and the jobs of all of their employees.

But, yes, you have a nice slogan and the world is all just exactly black and white. They probably hate dogs and apple pie as well.

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They permitted them to build right up to the property line which would force Turtle to shut down for safety concerns for people below the construction.

Can you offer something that actually supports this claim?

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Can you offer something that actually supports this claim?

Of course they can’t.

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I work for a living so I'm unavailable during those times. Try it sometime...it's good for the soul.

http://www.bostonplans.org/projects/development-projects/3371-washington...

The plans are publicly available thru the BPDA. You can see they are building right up to the property line. OSHA standards require scaffolding to be installed when constructing a structure of this height. They won't pass a building inspector site visit without having some control over the neighboring property. How exactly will they install scaffolding on the neighboring property they don't own or control?

That is why the JPNDC is mounting a pressure campaign to put Turtle Swamp out of business. I just got a flyer today walking out of the Green Street T stop personally vilifying the owner and tenant signed by City Life/Vida Urbana from a worker paid by the JPNDC.

This is not simply a nonprofit trying to do some good. This is a powerful elite organization with powerful friends trying to put a small business out of business as an exercise of their own power.

Most of you are on the wrong side on this. Mediation is needed between the parties and the JPNDC doesn't feel they need to negotiate with a bug they can step on.

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This is not simply a nonprofit trying to do some good. This is a powerful elite organization with powerful friends trying to put a small business out of business as an exercise of their own power.

What sort of bone to pick would this organization have with Turtle Swamp but for them blocking this development? You seem to think there's an ulterior motive there. I'll offer that perhaps you're correct as far as JPNDC goes. I'm not familiar with them enough to know that. But as for the rest of us who are opposed to Turtle Swamp blocking the development for more housing, and for seniors at that, we have plenty of reason to be upset at them considering the extreme housing shortage in Boston, the region, and in the country overall.

I am also hardly of the impression that this building situation is by any means unique in that they wouldn't be able to continue operations, somehow, or that the building/housing developer wouldn't be on the hook for those costs associated with meeting OSHA standards so much as it affected abutting properties. Unless you have proof otherwise, I'm not buying that. It's not as simple as "look at the plans."

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It is a cost issue for the JPNDC. They could build on the property line without impacting the neighbors, but since it is a public patio it would take extreme remediation. Hours of work would be limited. They would have to build the exterior from the inside. They would have enormous additional cost if they have to guarantee access to the property line of the abutter. They clearly haven't built that cost into their venture, so they have gone a different route. They want to put them out of business. And public sentiment against them is how they are trying to do it.

I really don't think the owners of Turtle Swamp are trying to prevent the housing from being built. I don't have inside knowledge so I can't state that as fact. I do know how the JPNDC likes to bully its way to its own ends, and I do know how well they are tied to our city leaders. I've lived in in the area longer than many of you have been on the planet and know how things work to grease action in JP. I have met the owners and find them to be good people. I think the JPNDC is the bully here. My own opinion, yes.

We will find the answer. It had to go to court because there has been no public hearing that discusses HOW they plan to build this without impacting their neighbors. That gets back to the cost issue. They obviously can't afford to build this the way it needs to be built if they can't access the neighboring property. If it should be built, they need to pay the appropriate cost. They shouldn't be trying to put good people out of work to make it happen. I hope we can agree on that. If we do, I'd lock arms with you in court if that is not what the Turtle Swamp owners ultimately want in court. Then I'd admit I'm wrong and you all have been correct. It just doesn't seem that way here.

We will find out. The best last refuge we still have is an honest judge following the law. The rest of our system sucks eggs.

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but since it is a public patio it would take extreme remediation.

Extreme how, exactly? What's the basis for calling it extreme, exactly?

Hours of work would be limited.

They usually are anyway. Turtle Swamp opens at 3 PM most days of the week. Although being familiar with private development it wasn't unusual to see them work through 5-6 PM, a lot of crews usually wrap up and are off-site by 3 PM in the construction world. Limiting building hours is already something that just about every municipality does.

They would have to build the exterior from the inside.

I don't think this is really a constructability issue that would have significant cost implications.

They would have enormous additional cost if they have to guarantee access to the property line of the abutter.

Can you offer some proof for this claim, too?

They clearly haven't built that cost into their venture, so they have gone a different route. They want to put them out of business. And public sentiment against them is how they are trying to do it.

I appreciate you responding to me in a civil manner. This is your opinion and, again, I don't know that I really have enough proof of this to take it at face value. Actually, the fact that you've lived in that area for longer than most people "have been on the planet" seems to me like you may have some predispositions that are making you come to this conclusion. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with them using public sentiment here because while I agree that people should be allowed to operate businesses freely (within context of the law, obviously), older people also deserve places to live and this is a great opportunity for that.

If it should be built, they need to pay the appropriate cost.

I don't think that anyone would really take issue with that, myself included. I think we're just looking for definitive proof that it is actually going to cost more and that they're not willing to pay it like you claim. Even if they propose to build partially on the patio line, I would be a proponent on them providing some sort of compensation during construction. But I think given the patio hours that Turtle Swamp runs it wouldn't be impossible to otherwise stay out of their way as much as possible.

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Can we finally put seniors into the freed up space?

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Lots of people in the comments glad to spite a neighborhood and have another empty building dragging down the square out of spite. Turtle Swamp might be jerks but it's also not good for the neighborhood to have this thing sit empty and unused.

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