Wow. If I saw that coming down my street, I would DEFINITELY stay inside!
Can anyone point to evidence of community transmission from one person quickly passing another person outdoors? I'm referring to two people walking or running in opposite directions in otherwise uncrowded areas.
I keep looking for reports and news and everything I find indicates the dose of the virus in such a setting is too low for contagion, even for people with weakened immune systems. Basically, you're not going to catch it from someone out for a jog provided you aren't jogging behind them.
I'm all about masks indoors, in crowded outdoor areas, and/or if you plan to interact with another people anywhere. But the suggestion people need to wear masks when just walking or cycling down residential streets isn't based on evidence of actual contagion.
I think right now people are trying to err on the side of safety. It might be more than is needed, but it doesn't hurt in most situations to wear the mask. Since there has only been a few months of research on this virus, it's hard to know if it *doesn't* get transmitted in a situation like two people passing on a street or there just isn't evidence *yet* that it does.
I bet you're probably right and two people passing a foot or two apart on an open sidewalk will not transmit the disease. However, I'm going to wear my mask until I'm sure that it won't because if I'm wrong it could end up killing people.
I want policies based on fact and evidence. Clearly, there's data to show masks in close proximity are effective. There's also data which indicates the dose level is an important part of the equation of who gets infected and who doesn't. So the mask policy when near other people, particularly when indoors and/or for a prolonged time has a lot of legitimacy.
But conversely, advocating for policy with little fact or evidence is a good way to get people to start disregarding all research and best practices. As more and more research indicates that dose level is an important factor in contagion and severity of cases, we (society) should adjust policies based on those findings and not keep advocating for policies drafted when almost nothing was known.
Saying, "You never know, someone could die" is absolutely a true statement. But it's one that applies to every human activity. So we put qualifiers on activities based on risk level. For example: Driving is OK but drunk driving is not OK. But both activities pose a very real risk of killing others.
So I'd like to see some evidence people outside in non-dense areas have actually infected the people who they very briefly passed in the course of their continuous movement.
Cover your face and grow up.
“Let’s require masks until we know with some confidence that outdoor proximity poses little or no risk,” and “Let’s not require masks until we know with some confidence that outdoor proximity poses a real risk,” are both reasonable, fact-based approaches to policy making.
If masks were expensive, or difficult to wear, or if they themselves posed health risks, I would support the latter. But they aren’t any of those things.
Do you smell what they exhale?
Even if you are outside?
If so, you breathe in what they breathe out.
Think about that.
I respect your posts but are you suggesting the virus is so contagious that someone 50-200ft away (about the distance pot smell travels outdoors) is leading to a number of active cases?
If that was the case, nearly 100% of the population would have it by now.
is that there’s a lot we don’t know, so why not assume the worst while we wait to find out more?
as someone above me said, wearing a mask really isn’t an undue burden.
The burden isn't the point. As a matter of public policy, "we don't know so just do it" makes for a lousy argument. After all, that was Trump's argument for taking a bunch of medications only used to treat other things.
The politics of this are extremely frustrating. One one side you have Trump and his supporters saying masks and social distancing is stupid and either should be supported.
On the other side, you have people saying, "Wear a mask when outside, even if you're not near anyone" which is equally lacking in evidence.
Like always, both sides are going to the extremes when the truth is in the middle. Clearly, there are limits to how contagious the virus is. Why is it so hard to qualify mask wearing outdoors to only needed when in close (~10ft) proximity to other people? (And/or noting that the time in closer proximity is relevant.)
COVID is currently the #1 killer but it's far from the only thing shortening people's lifespans. I wish the "wear a mask outside, always" folks were as passionate about all the other conveniences we take for granted but clearly cause a high number of fatalities.
Stop whinging about how nobody is doing your work for you.
Easy enough to go to pubmed and search on masks.
This sort of testing has been going on since SARS hit, and H1N1, and ... and ...
After all, that was Trump's argument for taking a bunch of medications only used to treat other things.
In that situation there were known negative effects for both the person taking the medication and others who need the medication for different reasons. If there weren't negative side effects and could have been positive effects, it would have been okay.
Face masks are different. They definitely have some positive effect, but it's very possible that outside the likelihood of infecting someone is so low that there is no measurable benefit. There is no negative effect.
The second one sounds like a reasonable (short-term) precaution. The first one sounds like a dangerous gamble. I will agree with you more if 6-12 months from now the same policies are in effect without any new evidence.
Can someone explain to our resident genius the difference between airborne transmission and droplet transmission.
Since you are pretending to know the difference, why don't you do it?
Given our evolving understanding of the relative significance of airborne vs droplet transmission and given the way the consensus scientific message seems to have changed over time from "it's all about droplets and surfaces," to "yeah, airborne too," to "airborne is a big deal," a fair degree of confusion is entirely understandable.
People don’t get a time stamp on their forehead at the exact minute of infection. Was the patient infected in the supermarket or while walking through the parking lot to get to the market? The market seems the most likely option, but is the lot also a possibility? Yes. While the experts are continuing their research into all the nuances the disease comes with, masks do not seem like that big of a sacrifice.
stop being contrary for the sake of being contrary. You're only impressing yourself. There is a non-zero chance of transmittal - that's all we need to know.
In my suburban area outside mask usage among solo walkers around 25 percent or so. Cyclists and joggers a bit higher and groups materially higher. It is an area with plenty of room so no need to ever come within ten feet of anyone, especially with the lack of vehicle traffic. I take my mask out with me but haven’t had a reason to put it on yet. If traffic picks up more and walking into the street becomes harder I may have to flip it down occasionally. If I was I a community with mandated face covering id wear one, it isn’t a huge deal, but Id rather not when not walking near anyone and would rather leaders save up political capital for the likely stricter restrictions coming next winter.
Indoors I have been happy to see 100 percent mask compliance. Capacity limits probably still more important and unfortunately have seen some slippage there, at least at star market.
We think alike. Flipping a mask up over your face when you see someone coming isn’t a big deal until we know more.
This page was supposed to be intentionally left blank. It seems there's a flaw in the process somewhere.
You ask for an impossible proof. To prove your example, you'd need someone who was only exposed to one person in the 2 weeks prior to their being tested positive, and that one person would have to have been met outside. This situation is so unlikely, it's easy to believe it hasn't happened. Of course you're not seeing any reports of such a thing. I doubt that the thing that "everything you find indicates" is data, it's most likely speculation. Now it's your turn; show us what is the actual threshold for exposure to trigger an infection, and what is the level of exposure produced by a passing infected jogger.
Sure, the air may be moving around more, but there is nothing about being outside that magically protects you when other people are close by and some are breathing hard.
Masks do work, however. Some evidence:
Pub Med is your friend here.
Well what if you are behind someone who is maskless? How can you be sure you are always in front on the maskless people? Are the maskless constantly making sure no one is behind them? That has not been my experience, most people are looking in front of them most of the time.
What if you are walking in a park and someone passes you who isn't wearing a mask? Now you are behind one of the maskless.
If the masks were for peoples own protection, youd see many more people wearing them. But since so many people around here are selfish they cling to the idea that since its for others safety, they will make excuses why they should err on the side of comfort and laziness and not wear a mask outside. Being maskless in public spaces is telling everyone else you are selfish and don't care about others.
Why has thinking of others health become a political divide, where the conservatives, led by the maskless Trump, can't be bothered to wear a mask in public spaces?
No one has answered your question because there aren't any studies that can prove being outside with a mask on is in any way better protection than not wearing one.
There have been studies in laboratory settings.
"In China, a study of 318 outbreaks found that transmission occurred outdoors in only one of them. In Japan, a study found that “the odds that a primary case transmitted Covid-19 in a closed environment was 18.7 times greater compared to an open-air environment."
I've read that the risk of passing on the virus is 0.3 percent.
Of course, if you have never been exposed to the virus, the chance of passing it on is 0 percent. Meanwhile, the city for a study with Mass General that estimated 9.9 percent of Bostonians are positive.
I would remind anyone interested in these numbers that this is about exposure, not hospitalizations or deaths from the virus or the pre-existing conditions that 98.4 percent of the deceased in Massachusetts were suffering from.
The risk of you passing on the disease is low, the data says. The risk of you passing on the disease that ends up killing someone is infinitesimal.
People are more likely to die from falling out of bed, is what I'm saying.
My bestie contracted covid19 while staying home and only visiting supermarket without mask in early March. Her father who lives with her contracted it from her and died at 56 years old no underlying heath issues. That’s enough data for me to wear a mask.
i just don’t get it.
are people scared of some kind of slide into authoritarianism where the scientists are our overlords?
if you’re fearful about authoritarian governments, look no further than the president insisting that churches open up in defiance of local ordinance.
just wear a fuckin mask
The challenge with only wearing masks when you CAN'T socially distance outside is that a situation can very quickly change. I will be walking down the street with no one around me when suddenly someone will pop out of a building or an alleyway, or I'll reach a cross street where there are more people. I just wear a mask all the time rather than try to anticipate "when will more people appear?" It's much easier and sets a good example to others.
Anecdotally, today I saw 4 different couples out walking their dog(s) without masks on our quiet side street. They weren't near anyone at the time of course. The problem with the no masks outside on quiet side streets is that this will quickly creep into no masks anywhere even when there are a lot of people around you. People can't be trusted to do the right, simple thing sadly.
I get the outdoor thing if you're walking on not busy side streets but until we know more, stores should kick people out without masks for employee safety alone.
If you are outside and not near anyone, you don’t need to wear a mask.
If you are outside and cannot be “socially distant,” wear a mask.
What I am saying is when you are walking your dog down a side street on a holiday morning, it's an iffy assumption to make that you won't meet anyone else out.
Aren’t you assuming they aren’t carrying masks with them?
Well carrying a mask with you, or using it to cover your chin, do nothing. The idea that they will put on a mask when they see someone close is troubling for several reasons, including that most of us dont use rear view mirrors when we walk or bike so they wont know someone is right behind them until its too late. Putting your mask on and off every time you notice someone is not very hygenic either. Just wear a mask if you are in a public space, are conservatives really so shallow and selfish they cant do this temporarily just bc their leader's expert opinion is masks and test are useless but hydroxy is a miracle cure?
The use of masks outside is likely to decrease further with the increased heat and humidity starting tomorrow. Wearing cloth over your face is going to be uncomfortable AF. Yes, wearing masks inside stores, etc should still be mandatory, but I think the most realistic guideline for the summer is to maintain social distancing and avoid large groups when outside.
FWIW, in my part of the city, the people I observe most likely to not be wearing masks, or wearing masks as chin coverings only, tend to be construction or public works employees, gathered in groups and not six feet apart.
"Wearing cloth over your face is going to be uncomfortable AF. "
Must be why people in hot climates traditionally cover their faces, lol.
Also eat your government meat by-product
and cash your 1200 dollar government check our dear leaders worked so tirelessly to give you.
Hide your kids under their beds while you have them log into their perfectly adequate zoom classroom. Don't worry be happy, everything's going to be alright.
Can people stop making the wearing of masks a political thing for once and just WEAR them for God's sake! Stop speculating whether or not you need them outside and just wear them. Nobody is taking away anybody rights, nobody is controlling you. Just be a team player for the good of the human race. Every little bit helps.
That's why I said wear your mask around others.
I think we could open everything up if we all wear masks. Our politicians don't agree though.
But the reason I wear a mask is because I respect you, and I want to minimize my chances of expelling virus any place you are going to be inhaling. I was wearing a mask for that reason long before any government official told me to do it, and i’ll keep wearing a mask after the government quits telling people to do so.
Since you never really know who you might come across, or when, please wear a mask any time you go out. I don't want my husband (or anyone else) to get sick or die just because you don't want to be inconvenienced.
I don't want my husband (or anyone else) to get sick or die just because you don't want to be inconvenienced.
I'm all about masks but that statement could apply to anything. If you have a driver's license you're obviously OK with trading a certain amount of safety for convenience.
I'm not suggesting people shouldn't wear masks but there should be some qualifiers.
I wear a mask anywhere I might see people, just because I don't want to increase the general anxiety by making strangers worry I'm an anti-mask asshole
someone driving around giving everybody some head?
its time to take your pants off and get schwifty in here !
St. Helens ashed areas that weren't hit in the big eruption on May 18, and that ash was around for months after.
I remember wearing masks outside most of the summer as a result. I wore a mask to school. If I wanted to go outside for PE, I wore a mask. We drew masks on the people on our Pee-Chees. I don't remember it being a big deal.
My dad worked road crew and had a respirator - interesting tan that year.
Point being that even in the summer (and yes the summers in the northwest can be hot) nobody paid it much mind. Put on mask, get on with life.
I find it amusing that people are making "pre-excuses" for not wearing masks based on shit that doesn't happen, when it hasn't even not happened yet. Just wear it and use your whack imagination to figure out how to make it work, rather than bemoaning the entirely invented negative effects that must be gonna happen.
Hahaha! Yes this
Put on mask, get on with life.
For weeks I've had this strange feeling going out.. Not sure if it was lack of people or "we're now slowly gonna reopen" announcement last week from Baker or something else.
But last day or two, felt different. I was out and about (not far just to get coffee), I just had a mask on. It was no big deal. I dunno. Felt strange.
We will see how i feel when I go to the supermarket. Some reason, I get depressed there. I think I used to like grocery shopping a lot, and now its a hassle.
And yeah people just need to make it work for you. Hotter times? time to get some disposable ones. I got a few boxes of 'face coverings" nice N airy for 3 layers.Much better than some hand made ones. But more to come, you can just use lighter fabrics and such. Its all about making it work for you.
People just don't want to be inconvenienced.
I find the layered disposable ones to be much better also. I think maybe some people haven’t experienced the awfulness of this virus and so don’t take it very seriously. I have and will do anything in my power to prevent others from it.
Help keep Universal Hub going. If you like what we're up to and want to help out, please consider a (completely non-deductible) contribution.
Copyright 2021 by Adam Gaffin and by content posters.Advertise | About Universal Hub | Contact | Privacy