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Trump administration moves to deprive sick children of lifesaving care

WBUR reports at least 20 children now receiving care at Boston hospitals for, among other things, cancer, cystic fibrosis, HIV, cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy and epilepsy have been given about a month to get out of the US because the government no longer cares to let their kind stay in the US, no matter how sick they are.

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IMAGE(https://media3.giphy.com/media/vjwACwDxB0hZ6/giphy.gif?cid=790b761165941b8e2958556586a6a2be68f087e289066b1b&rid=giphy.gif)

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Fish, Roman, etc... are on hold with their doctors to check if they need to be concerned about still being in the same condition after four hours...

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IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/raDX4Rb.gif)

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That joke/commentary fake Boston Globe front page they made a few years ago is starting to look real.

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Oh, geez, now you've triggered Fish and we'll have to hear about that lady in Manila with the Dorchester phone number again.

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He always spells it "Manilla" when he tells us our favorite bedtime story.

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More Trump related than Boston related. Welcome to politicalhub...

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Boston hospitals and kids in Boston are involved. Also, if you click the link, you'll see it involves an immigration-aid group based in Boston.

And for other folks, that group, the Irish International Immigration Center, is no longer just for the Irish - it has provided aid to people from 120 different countries.

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told me a few weeks ago when we were all out having breakfast (completely unprovoked btw)

"this is the same kind of stuff hitler did."

this is not a liberal man
this is not some hippie
this is not some whiny millenial
this is a no nonsense straight shooting red blooded american

this is a man who represents a dwindling population of those who have seen this all before

not only CAN it happen here, it IS happening.
Right now, as we speak

This country is in serious, serious danger

#WINNING

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"These families are all here receiving treatment that is unavailable in their home countries, "

While I certainly feel for these families, I've been told over and over how much better healthcare is in other countries.

(Having friends and families use NHS - some unsuccessfully, I knew this was not the case but it is nice to see some honest reporting for a change).

Of course I would hope arrangements are made for the patient and parent/guardian. I think there's a bit more to this..

Why does a whole family come? Here in the US, if a child needs St. Judes, a parent or guardian is welcomed but certainly not the whole family. In the US, if a child is sick - the whole family doesn't just stop. What am I missing?

I speak as someone with a severely disabled sibling who has spent more time in hospitals than I'd like and watched parents struggle emotionally, financially, etc.

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There's a difference between an American kid going to a hospital in an American city and a kid from another country going to an American hospital. Imagine if your child had to go to Rome for some sort of care - maybe you'd be OK with leaving the rest of your family behind, but a lot of people wouldn't.

Oh, for Christ's sake: We're talking about vulnerable, sick little kids and anxious parents and siblings. Have we really become so hateful and miserable a society we're unable to let kids and their parents in for medical care? I guess we now have an answer.

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Have we really become so hateful and miserable a society we're unable to let kids and their parents in for medical care? I guess we now have an answer.

Yes, yes we have because of green paper and the class system we have (the have and have nots). We've moved to a culture, as i like to say:

"I've got mine, f*ck everyone else"

This pretty much sums up the US today. No one cares about any one else any more, just get out of MY way so I can have MY way.

Apply that phrase to alot of broad issues today and it becomes apparent. It's sad, we used to have compassion for each other, but not any more.

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For the liberals, let them stay

For the conservatives, let their home country pay.

Let their governments make that choice.

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Pffft.

I've lived it, I don't have to imagine.

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You've lived being a kid with a serious illness who gets removed from the country where they can get care?

Cool story sis.

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WE FOUND THE FASCISM ENABLER!!!!!!

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LOL. yes dearie. I am speaking from experience you don't have. I know more about dealing with a sick child than you will ever know. I've lived the emotional and financial hardships, let alone what it does to a family unit .

You are so off base here.

When you've got nothing to say, screaming "fascist" is always a good bet, huh?

Grow the fuck up.

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Tell us about the time the government came and took your sick child away so they couldn't get any medical care.

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I would think that one, such as yourself, would have more understanding as you "speak as someone with a severely disabled sibling who has spent more time in hospitals than I'd like and watched parents struggle emotionally, financially, etc."

I find it curious that you apparently do not.

And if we are throwing the "f" bomb around, how about, "We are talking about fucking sick kids here". There should be no debate or discussion whether this is ok or not. What the Trump Administration is doing here is evil, pure and simple

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“Why does a whole family come? Here in the US, if a child needs St. Judes, a parent or guardian is welcomed but certainly not the whole family. In the US, if a child is sick - the whole family doesn't just stop. What am I missing?”

Cultural literacy.

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We used to live in Brookline and several children went to our kids school while also receiving medical treatment. They came from all over the country and the world. And yes it was the whole family because these are children and those families made that decision to come.
The 3 year old brother of my child’s classmate ended up dying. They were from Vermont but the whole family moved up here to be with their 3 year old while he received treatment. After he passed they moved back.
Another family from North Carolina, Florida, another from Asia...

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While I certainly feel for these families, I've been told over and over how much better healthcare is in other countries.

Are you five years old and/or have never been outside the US? You seem to think that "other countries" are just one big blob and they're all the same.

Why does a whole family come?

The whole family DOESN'T come. But, given the seriousness of the conditions for which these children are being treated, their chances aren't great even in a US hospital, and that may be where they die. If your kid had to go somewhere else to a hospital for treatment of a life-threatening condition, and that treatment might not work out, where would you be?

I speak as someone with a severely disabled sibling who has spent more time in hospitals than I'd like and watched parents struggle emotionally, financially, etc.

And you think that gives you a ticket to crap on others who are less fortunate. Got it.

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The NHS is, like all heath care systems, complicated. The brightest point is that it's cheap. Accounting for only 8 to 9% of British GDP, compared to 19% for the US, and 11-14% for most EU countries. It does fairly well with reproductive heath and fairly poorly with cancer. NICE is in an ongoing battle with American drugs companies to keep drug prices in check, but drugs companies have started pulling drugs (i.e. killing people) rather than let the NHS get a reasonable deal. (despite offering research trials).

But comparing heathcare systems is hard. I think Boston has a much better deal than most of the USA considering how much of the medical industry is based here.

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(straightening necktie, getting ready to dodge lbb milkshake...)

" 'These families are all here receiving treatment that is unavailable in their home countries, ' "

Let's look at the care that Big Papi got when he was shot in the DR. They took care of him, kept him alive and stabilized him. He was there for a bit, then came to Mass General for follow-up treatment. I wonder who paid for it. Any country that can provide that level of emergency care for a gunshot wound should be able to handle, say, kidney dialysis. There's a place on Hyde Park Ave near Grandma's bakery that does outpatient dialysis. It's not a big deal, technically. Honduras, for example cannot do it? It's not a question of can they but who will pay for it? Maybe it's the health care [ed] plan system in that country that sucks, not the medical treatment system. Travel to Jamaica? Buy the travel medical insurance. They don't take health plan cards and they demand cash.
They are here because they cannot get that level of care in their home countries, not because it doesn't exist, but because it doesn't exist for them.

Except for Venezuela. Venezuela's screwed.

As far as separating kids from required treatments, I would think that courts would hold the deportations in abeyance until one side or the other proved their case.

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Do you really not understand the difference between health care system and medical care? People aren't saying medical care in other countries is better (and certainly not where many of these kids are coming from). The United States has amazing medical care if you can afford it, or your health insurance covers what you need. But our health care system is terrible- very inefficient and expensive with worse health care outcomes. I do not understand why conservatives have such a difficult time understanding something as simple as this.

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"Worse outcomes" is not necessarily true - apples to apples.

As for expensive - yes. But it's also the reason we have some of the best hospitals in the world. Rich foreigners usually come here for care - not places with socialized medicine.

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Still carrying on about how ACTUALLY our health care system is fine if you're not poor AND live in the right state AND don't get sick I see.

JD, you've already stated below it's people's own damn fault that they can't afford health care. I think that says everything we need to know about your grasp on the realities of our system.

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About 8-9% of US residents don't have health insurance. This is a choice (or negligence).

Virtually all health insurance is means tested. If you can't afford it (or don't have it), the question is why? If you can't afford it, you get it for free.

What part of that do you not understand?

Your grasp of our current system is about 15 years behind the times.

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https://www.vox.com/health-care/2019/5/10/18526696/health-care-costs-er-...

And even those people who don't live in republican states (screw them, as you've already stated) often can't afford the care, JD. But I'm sure you know that already.

But this is fine, we can't do any better, right? Even though we live in the wealthiest country in the world, we have to also accept American mothers risking their children's lives because they can't afford the current system. After all, it's those stupid mothers' fault their kids are getting sick, right?

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Do you read your own links?

These people decidedbto a) have kids they couldn't afford b) made a decision to drop one of their jobs and c) conscioysly decided to not get health insurance.

Yet again, please try to keep up.

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> ... they couldn't afford.

Nice one.

Not.

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Social contract says we have an obligation to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. No problem.

Doesn't obligate us to take care of those who consciously decide to make others pay their way or for their "lifestyle" decisions.

You don't leave your job and give up employer insurance so you can have a nice stay at home mom lifestyle. Goes infinite times over when your kid almost dies because of that decision.

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Wanting to spend time with her child instead of working. Who does she think she is, royalty? What a jerk. Deserves whatever she got, amirite?

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Not a right.

She deserves what she gets

The poor kid didn't. Adults need to make adult decisions and own their mistakes. Sadly, kids often pay the price of stupid parents.

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Thanks once again for making your position crystal clear.

BTW, since you're so concerned about people abusing the "privilege" of having children, should I assume that you support full and unfettered access to birth control and abortion for all?

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No problem. It's legal, isn't it.

Do YOU have a problem with that?

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As I sure you know, those rights are under attack by many on the political right in this country. I hope you're working to elect politicians who will keep those rights legal.

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I absolutely won't vote for trump and didn't last time.

I could probably be persuaded to vote for any of the current leading Dems except Warren.

Good enough for you?

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What do you care what I think?

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If you'd rather another 4 years of Trump and his cast of grifters running the US over Warren you are absofuckinglutely insane.

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If I refuse to vote for Trump or Warren, how much difference will it make.

If she's the Dem I go third party, just like 2016.

Plus if she's the Dem I think she gets crushed in the electoral college anyway. She scares small children.

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But, this is pretty awful, and patently false:

She scares small children.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/cauc...

Whatever kind of "scary" image you made of Warren is simply a reflection of your own shortcomings.

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Even several of my liberal friends find her to be a phony opportunist. If you can't see through her shtick, you are not a particularly astute observer of human character.

this is not really a policy issue (my wife always laughs because she says I actually agree with her on a lot of things - especially the financial industry and their behavior). Like our current president but perhaps for different reasons, I think she lacks the judgment to be a good president. She lives in an ivory tower fantasy land when it comes to policy and perhaps most importantly, I don't trust her to be commander in chief. I don't agree with many of the same policies held by Bernie, Khamala, Pete, Amy and others - but I would trust them with their finger on the button.

Her? Not so much. She'd have to sit down and write a policy paper on the issues while Russian supersonic missiles were in the air.

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The projection here is astounding. Both towards me and Warren.

But sure, you do have the luxury of voting third party in MA because we're largely a lock for a blue turnout.

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Hand her the nomination. See what happens in the swing states.

Sadly, same fate is likely for the other progressives. Which leaves us with uncle Joe. Sad that the best the Dems can do to challenge Trump is Joe Biden.

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You're the one saying that you'd vote for weirdo Marianne Williamson or Russian-backed Tulsia Gabbard over Warren, so I mean there's no total lapse in judgement there or anything.

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Yep those poors who can't afford a perfectly reasonable $5,000 deductible just shouldn't be having kids. In fact, why don't we sterilize them, JD? Kids are only for rich people! What cracks me up is you think this is a reasonable thing to say out loud! You're supposed to say the "let them eat cake" stuff in private, JD.

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No wonder Mass got an F in financial literacy in a national review.

A) they chose not to pay for insurance
B) this was a lifestyle choice, she had a job with good benefits and left
C) If you have kids and can't swing an emergency $5000 bill, you shouldn't be having kids. Different if something befalls you, but if you are that irresponsible with money, you aren't grown up enough to be raising children
D) maybe we shouldvhave national health insurance so morons like this would be forced to pay for it.

What, you think medicare for all is free? Try more like $10k for every man woman and child in this country.

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Remind us to let you die and not participate in your go fund me.

And if you think you've saved enough money? OH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

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When you get life in the face, social contract says we back you.

If you just stick your hand out and say we need to pay for your lifestyle choices, my advice is make better choices.

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Yeah, it's definitely negligence (or choice, LOL) that makes people beg for money on the internet to pay their medical bills. Bunch of slackers.

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PRO-LIFE Y'ALL!!!!!!

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People who support such action are beyond reasonable discourse. It seems that on a few recent stories about the unadulterated hate coming from the executive branch and how it is impacting our area a comment pops up about how calling the Boston Globe "Dorchester number" leads to a call center in the Philippines, without a clear connection as to how that has something to do with fascism in our country.

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Are you new here? Fishy has been milking that story for years now.

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Yes, they are new. Haven't you noticed the wave of new unverified accounts and the sudden dramatic increase in Likes of posts by UHub's resident trolls? Since when does anything FISHY says get dozens of Likes? I'm fairly confident the site is being targeted for social media manipulation.

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The article doesn't seem to describe "visas they had previously gotten to come here for care." It sounds more like the people mentioned were already in the USA illegally, and had their deportation deferred for medical reasons.

That's different from the USA inviting foreigners to come for medical care (which requires a visa) and then shooing them away.

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I've deleted the part about previous visas since that isn't an issue here.

The fact remains, though, the government is ordering sick kids out of the country.

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From one source I heard that most people in this circumstance came here legally with a visa and either fell ill while they were here or came for treatment that is taking longer or their condition worsened. Here's one example:

"Shonell Norville, a 37-year-old from Guyana, said she and her 7-year-old son, Joaquim, are facing deportation when their medical deferred action expires in March. They came on a tourist visa in August 2016 to visit Joaquim’s grandparents, who are US citizens, and were visiting Franklin Park Zoo when Joaquim fell ill and was diagnosed with epilepsy, Shonell Norville said. Since then, Joaquim has had major problems. His lungs collapsed when he had a seizure, requiring doctors to perform a tracheotomy. He also developed an infection in his colon, requiring the removal of his large intestine and the use of a colostomy bag."

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Canada has a much better system of health care anyway. Maybe Canada will take them?

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That's why all the rich foreigners fly right over Logan to get to Canada instead of all those crappy hospitals in DC, Baltimore, NY and Boston.

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It's the rest of the poor locals not being able to afford the hospitals in DC, Baltimore, NY, and Boston that's the problem.

I would've expected a deeper understanding of the shortcomings in our health care system from a "major-league" financial expert like yourself. Oh well.

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Would much rather go get in.line for some care in Canada instead of say BMC or the Carney.

DId they teach you about why the stats on life expectancy and infant mortality are not good measures of outcome comparisons down in AA?

You're not very good at this are you? Good luck in the minor leagues.

And did you miss the part that at leastvone of these kids is at Childrens? And Masshealth is paying?

Crappy system we got here!

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I was just talking about costs, I didn't say a thing about life expectancy or infant mortality, but hey, those stats ALSO aren't great here compared to the rest of the developed world, are they? Thanks for pointing out that health care is way more expensive for way worse outcomes in this country versus the rest of the developed world!

https://infogram.com/health-care-spending-in-the-united-states-and-other...

Getting a little jumpy, at the plate aren't you "JD"?

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It's almost always impossible to use simple comparisons to evaluate complex systems:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/physiciansfoundation/2018/04/09/u-s-health-...

As the author points out, Europe has vastly different measures of outcomes than we do for the same medical conditions. Not many 90 year olds will get a double knee implant in Europe, but they will here. And our systems can vary as much by state as they do by country in Europe.

There are many good reasons (and many bad ones) our system is more expensive and why we look inferior on simple measures like cost and outcomes. Once you learn to hit that curve ball, maybe you'll make it to the big leagues.

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No one said the reasons WHY health care costs are high and outcomes poor in this country weren't varied, it's almost like you're arguing with yourself? I said too many people can't afford the treatment they need in this country, which even your Forbes authors would admit. Surely as an alleged author like yourself (with a book you have yet to share with us) you would want to argue in good faith?

Does this seem like evidence of a well-functioning health care system? Desperate people lining up for days just to get a medical professional to look at them for a few minutes at a free clinic: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-clinic-of-last-resort/2019/0...

Or how about millions of Americans begging to raise money for medical treatment on GoFundme: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/01/the-perverse-logic-of-gofu...

These are two really awful actual examples of how messed up our health care system is that don't conjure up hordes of mythical 90 year old tennis players getting two knee replacements as a reason. What an obvious bush-league anecdote that was, JD. You should really be ashamed of yourself.

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And I quote

"shortcomings in our health care system" doesn't mention cost or affordability anywhere.

But if you want to ignore those and discuss affordability - fine.

It is ridiculously expensive for lots of reasons (some covered in that article - the co-author of which happens to be the 90 year old with the two knee transplants - nice myth).

Bottom line - if you can't afford health care - Medicaid is supposed to help you. If your state is too screwed up to provide that care - well take it up with Tennessee etc.

If you don't qualify for Medicaid - you are supposed to have coverage on your own - adjusted for income.

Doesn't help the cost of the medical bills, but if you can't afford medical coverage in this country - you are doing something wrong or your state is such as they note in Tennessee (and most of that article you link to is more about access to medical care in rural areas, little to do with affordability).

And keep in mind the bottom line - we are talking here about someone that entered the country illegally with a sick child and is getting public assistance at one of the best hospitals in the world all or mostly for free! Spread the word - if your kid is sick and you can sneak into the US everything is free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, it's free at last!

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"getting public assistance at one of the best hospitals in the world all or mostly for free! "

You seem to know a lot of specifics not mentioned in the article, did you simply make them up?

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All 20 have “medical deferred action,” a special status that enables them to stay in the country, get MassHealth benefits, and work legally while their children receive medical care.

Are you arguing that Children's hospital is not one of the best in the world or that MassHealth is not public assistance? Or that somehow someone on MassHealth is actually covering the majority of the care?

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..."all or mostly for free" bit. Got a cite? And, um, how that affects you?

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Do you know what medicaid is?

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You have no idea if they are on MassHealth, nor should you.

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Did u read it?

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Right above where I said "shortcomings in our health care system," I said: "It's the rest of the poor locals not being able to afford the hospitals in DC, Baltimore, NY, and Boston that's the problem." Again, you so want to obfuscate and win a DIFFERENT argument that you didn't read what I said.

Too many Americans can't afford proper health care
. That's the point! Should I say it more slowly? We can do better. Every other developed country provides decent, affordable healthcare and THIS country doesn't.

But then you come out and say:

if you can't afford medical coverage in this country - you are doing something wrong or your state is such as they note in Tennessee

Finally, FINALLY you come out and admit to being a Randian sociopath who thinks being poor, getting sick, or worse yet, being born poor and sick in a republican state is those people's own damn fault. (Tennesseans aren't real Americans I guess?) All the other blather about crowds of 90 year old tennis players is a smoke screen for you saying "Screw you, I got mine." Thank you for at last spelling it out so clearly. Good day, JD.

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The primary point of that article was about lack of access to health care, not cost. Since the ACA was passed, almost all Americans have coverage (and 60% of medical payments are made by the government).

Affordability was a secondary point and mainly for the small percentage of those in the gap between government and private insurance.

They point out that Tennessee specifically decided not to expand Medicaid. How do I, a Mass resident, fix a state program somewhere else?

Bottom.line, for almost all Americans, we have universal coverage. We do have work to do for 3-5% of the population, and I support that. However, these are not Americans or legal residents. I'm gine if they stay for care, but send the bill to their home country. We can't afford coverage for our own citizens, much less the strain and cost of those who sneak in the back door and want us to subsidize their medical costs.

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We have been told for years how America's health care system is so terrible. These people should be thrilled to go back to their home countries and take advantage of their wunderful coverage.

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A quick search says that Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates are the two wealthiest individuals in the US, and both of them have their primary residence in Washington state. Number three on the list is Warren Buffett who lives in Nebraska.

What is the point of this? Well, the people who claim that the US has the best health care in the world are essentially making an equivalent claim that Washington and Nebraska are the two wealthiest states because of those three residents.

Someone working below the poverty line in those states benefits as much from the wealth of those three as a US citizen who is sick but has no access to our first class or cutting edge medical care because they have no insurance or limited coverage. That's what makes the health care system bad.

Pay attention to when people make claims about how good or bad health care is here, there has been an intentional muddying of the water between health care and health care system to protect the interest of certain elements within the system.

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The fact that in a rich country of 300 million people you can find specialists and specialty facilities that you can't find in, say, Iceland has, of course, very little relevance to the question of whether America's healthcare system, on the whole, provides better or worse outcomes than Iceland's.

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Land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy.

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That is all. We really do.

What the hell can we do to stop this?

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Vote.

Help register others to vote.

Drive people to the polls so they can vote.

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Children who are ill have the right to be cared for here. Trump is really doing dirt.! Let's hope he's voted out next year!

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