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Supporting immigrants in West Roxbury

Pro-immigrant protesters in West Roxbury

Jeffrey Juris photographed the marchers outside the Arabic Evangelical Baptist Church and the Elks Club on Spring Street this afternoon.

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Wait. Although they are correct, aren't they actually being detrimental by advertising to Trump's enforcement minions by helping them locate where to start knocking on doors?

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This is false. There was a former ICE agent on the panel. He seemed to say that if illegal aliens cooperate as witnesses in investigations then they get to stay.

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...when will we all be leaving and giving the land back to the indigenous people?

- A South Boston Community member

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They were protesting a panel discussion about sanctuary cities. One of the panelists was Maureen Maloney.
http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/08/22/d...

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"They were protesting a panel discussion about sanctuary cities. One of the panelists was Maureen Maloney."
OK, I guess to have a discussion about sanctuary cities is wrong somehow? Should we not talk about it? Are they arguing against the freedom to speak on a subject? To discuss it?
Just what the hell is the point of protesting against Maureen Maloney, if that's what they were doing? Oh, that's right, demonize her for her opinion. She disagrees with you.
Yup, her son was killed by an illegal immigrant. Guy got shitfaced, blew a stop sign and managed to get her son, Matthew Denice, wrapped up in the rear wheel well of his pickup truck, which he continued to drive for a quarter of a mile...with his four year old sitting next to him in the truck.

Matthew Denice was still alive when witnesses got the truck stopped.
A lawyer is trying to get his time reduced:
http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2016/05/nicolas_dutan_g...
""Manslaughter requires reckless conduct. Motor vehicle homicide only requires negligent conduct. The evidence did not show Guaman acted recklessly," said attorney Ethan Stiles."
Witnesses tried to stop the truck for a quarter of a mile.
""Isn't stop and banging on the car a universal language?" asked Judge Peter Agnes during the hearing."

Why, yes, judge, I suppose it is.
As far as I'm concerned, when he gets out put the son of a bitch on the next flight to Quito.

That poor woman has been through a living hell. She's entitled to her opinion, as are you, anon, but if the draw to the Arabic Evangelical Baptist Church is her presence, then I hope the protesters get their genitals gnawed off by chihuahuas. Figuratively, of course, I would never approve of actual chihuahua genital mutilation.

Oh, and AG, the headline I fully agree with. I do support immigrants. My family is full of immigrants. But...

You left out the word 'illegal'.

EDIT: My apologies to the friends and relatives of Matthew Denice for misspelling his last name.

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One question during the Q&A was how many people a year in ma are killed by immigrants and how many are killed by citizens? No one knew the answer. Someone on the panel said it didn't matter. The questioner said it matters if your argument is that all undocumented immigrants are 'criminal illegals aliens,' which is what Sheriff Hodgson calls "illegal" immigrants.

Most undocumented immigrants have overstayed student and employment visas. The federal government does not track who leaves the country. But we do know the ones with expired student visas came for an education.

My assessment is that the arguments presented by the panelists about undocumented immigrants were premised on fear-mongering immigrants as violent felons and terrorists. Entering the country without authority is not a felony, it is a civil infraction.

One dangerous side-effect of demagogueing and fear-mongering undocumented is that people inflict violence on them. We saw that last summer.

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"We saw that last summer."

As others around here are wont to say, "Citation, please."

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universalhub:

One of them took a metal pole and struck the victim with it repeatedly. The two assailants then walked away laughing, witnesses said.

The victim was transported immediately to Boston Medical Center, where he was treated for a broken nose, serious bruising across his torso, and other injuries.

At the State Police barracks in South Boston, Scott Leader allegedly made a series of incriminating statements, including that he and his brother “tuned up” an “illegal immigrant,” and that this behavior was acceptable because the victim was homeless and Hispanic.

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The unfortunate part is that your average reader does not want to look up statistics. The fact that there's already been discredited stories about ICE supposedly deporting innocent people (I.E. a Korean adoptee who was "caught stealing a Bible" from his parents house;was actually a convicted violent felon) says a lot about "fake news". A majority of immigration deportations last year were for people who committed serious offenses (86% for drugs,violence,etc.) So when people want to complain about the likes of MS13 terrorizing neighborhoods and the reluctance of residents to help inform police of them, this is where ICE is stepping in. So either you want the drugs and violent gangs out, or you don't..

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The Obama administration knowingly let in at least 16 admitted MS-13 gang members who arrived at the U.S. as illegal immigrant teenagers in 2014, a top senator said Wednesday, citing internal documents that showed the teens were shipped to juvenile homes throughout the country.

Sen. Ron Johnson, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, said a whistleblower turned over Customs and Border Protection documents from 2014 detailing the 16 people who were caught crossing the border.

“CBP apprehended them, knew they were MS-13 gang members, and they processed and disbursed them into our communities,” Mr. Johnson, Wisconsin Republican, said.

The gang members were part of the surge of UAC, or “unaccompanied alien children,” as the government labels them, who overwhelmed the Obama administration in 2014, leaving Homeland Security struggling to staunch the flow from Central America.

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Never use the worlds "this was reported today" without a link to where it was reported and when and by whom.

That's a ton of quotation marks for a screed without a source.

In otherwords, link to your source if you want to just "drop" some "facts" here and make a persuasive argument.

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washingtontimes

Sen Ron Johnson said, based a leak from a 'whislteblower'

It may very well be true that 16 minor MS-13 gang members were allowed to enter but I don't why they'd permit them to enter if they knew the were MS-13.

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It's a right wing paper which has been known to publish things that are proven inaccurate, to put it mildly. Not a creditable source.

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... by Moon's Unification Church?

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Research shows the Washington Times has no history of being a lying sack of crap like the Post:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Post#Controversies

The answer to the Moon question may be gleaned at Wikipedia also.

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We are talking about the Washington Times being a completely not-credible source of anything but amusement.

Washington Post is a totally and utterly separate issue.

But you probably still believe that a pizza place without out a basement has pedophiles in the basement ... yeah.

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"I believe what everything that a known cult tells me via a known to be untrustworthy news source if it confirms my biases".

"What I want to hear" and "true" are very different things. Please learn methods of making those distinctions.

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It has also published things that are proven inaccurate. As has the NY Times, the Boston Globe, the Boston Herald, the Wall Street Journal. A newspaper isn't the be all, end all of #truenews. The same way it's absurd to take anything printed as absolutely factual, it's also absurd to discount something published in a "right wing" news source automatically because you don't like the slant of publisher.

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That proves the accuracy of CCD's quote?

LogicFail

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Was someone suggesting the drunk driver be let off the hook? Unless it's only illegals who can drink you'd save a lot more lives by changing the drunk driving laws and enforcement then you will by expelling every "illegal".

As for the protesters, they are equally entitled to their right for free speech. They were protesting the ideas of the panelists, not the right for the panel to speak.

Most agree drunk drivers and violent criminals should be arrested and deported. (I sure do.) Undocumented immigrants aren't any more likely to fall into these categories then those born here natively. Shifting the blame to those being undocumented isn't going to make the country safer, it's just going to distract from the real problems.

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They were protesting the ideas of the panelists, not the right for the panel to speak.

There was an effort to "no platform" the panel.
http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/20170518/franklin-group-hate-has-no...

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Sure, they are critical of venues that host these people. That's a far cry from the "Lock them up!" sort of language that's sometimes directed towards people who say things people don't like.

It's fair game to say that someone's views shouldn't be given a forum.

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Center for Immigration Studies has earned a hate group designation by SPLC for the way they talk about Hispanics. That said, I didn't see anyone argue that she should not speak. She did not discuss Hispanics, just 'illegals.' She described them as violent criminals and terrorists. There was a lot of bull tumbling out of her mouth. No one of the panel called her out on it.

If a person came to town and preached lynching people of color, I would have no problem trying to deny him a forum, within the law.

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I'm not shifting anything. Most illegal aliens are here because it offers a better life than the place they came from. Hell, I don't blame them.
There are some among them that really need deporting. They should be deported. All countries have the right to regulate immigration. This country has the same right. The laws have been flaunted to our detriment.

From yesterday:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/24/were-ms-13-gang-members-relea...

"At least 16 self-proclaimed MS-13 gang members were transferred out of federal custody and into community placement centers across the country during the border surge in unaccompanied children from Central America in 2014, according to a new letter from the Chairman of the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs."
"According to Johnson’s letter and documents obtained by Fox News, the gang members “freely admitted” that they were “active MS-13 gang members” and marked bathrooms inside a placement center in Nogales, Arizona with MS-13 associated graffiti."

Letting them go is a good idea? Look, I am not condoning mass style raids on immigrant communities. I'd just like a little sanity here. I believe that there are a bunch of dangerous people that need deporting.

Letting MS-13 members freely assimilate into the community is a recipe for disaster.

You want more Trump? That's how you get more Trump.

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You went too far. You messed up the point you were trying to make.

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Just saying.

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So let's talk about "illegal". My grandparents were also immigrants. They came here with no special skills; my grandfather listed gardener as his occupation, although as it happened he did have other skills. At that time, people like them were welcome as long as they were white Europeans. Now, if someone wants to come here as an unskilled or low-skills laborer, there are very few ways that they can do this. H2-A visas are temporary and are plagued with delays that hurt American farmers. Other visas for unskilled workers are incredibly limited -- there are a total of 5000 green cards annually, for example. Do you dispute the fact that the US economy needs more unskilled labor than the current visa/green card system can supply?

The "go back to your country and wait in line" myth is just that. Our immigration system does not work like that. Why would you expect people to act as if it did?

As for the death of Maureen Maloney's son, it is true that he was killed by an immigrant who was not in the US legally, but you're making a connection that does not exist between Matthew Denise's death and his killer's immigration status. If there were no undocumented immigrants, if they had all been deported somehow, would Matthew Denise be alive? Sure, or at least, he wouldn't have been killed by that guy. But it's like saying you'd reduce crime if you locked up everyone with brown hair.

Sanctuary cities don't seek to protect felons. All that they do is remove their police from acting as immigration agents. If an undocumented person commits a crime, they still get arrested, charged, tried and convicted if guilty. It is possible that the driver in this case had priors, but I couldn't find any through google. So, if he had no priors, and thus no contact with police, how would he have been deported regardless of sanctuary city status? Answer: he wouldn't. Not without massive sweeps seeking to deport every last single undocumented person in the United States. Is that what you want? Do you really believe that is practical (never mind just or sensible)?

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"Not without massive sweeps seeking to deport every last single undocumented person in the United States. Is that what you want? Do you really believe that is practical (never mind just or sensible)?"

Of course it's not what I want. I just think the whole system needs a good straightening out. If more visas solves a genuine chronic labor shortage, and is not just an employer scam to hire people for cheap money (see H1B tech), then it should be explored.
Presto chango...if you have a visa, you're not illegal.
Problem with the phrase "Sanctuary City" is the connotation that has grown up around it. The other problem, and this is a significant problem, is the 'posted bail v flight risk' situation. I think it's different for an illegal vs an American citizen. One has significantly more of an anchor in the community than the other.

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Of course it's not what I want. I just think the whole system needs a good straightening out. If more visas solves a genuine chronic labor shortage, and is not just an employer scam to hire people for cheap money (see H1B tech), then it should be explored.

Should be, yes. Will be? Unlikely, given the jellylike nature of the tissue that occupies the place of a spine in the average congresscritter. Can't really blame them too much, as the American public bark when the dog whistles are blown.

Problem with the phrase "Sanctuary City" is the connotation that has grown up around it. The other problem, and this is a significant problem, is the 'posted bail v flight risk' situation. I think it's different for an illegal vs an American citizen. One has significantly more of an anchor in the community than the other.

You seem like you really want to have dialogue on this, so permit me to suggest that you skip the term "illegal", which is inflammatory and usually incorrect, because most of the people you're talking about immigrate legally. To the meat of your comment, we have some control over the "connotation", in that we can avoid adding our own attitude into the mix, and rely on prevalent definitions. If you look at the Massachusetts Safe Communities Act, you will see what "sanctuary city" means to those who are actually trying to create such things. It's pretty straightforward and not threatening to anyone who's unencumbered by an ax to grind. As for lack of ties to the community, if that's really true, why does ICE have a policy of moving detained people to facilities away from their homes? They do this deliberately, even though there are closer facilities. They do it for the express purpose of removing the detainees' sources of support. Obviously, ICE thinks they've got significant ties.

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First, it's not at all clear to me that these folks were there protesting Ms. Maloney's inclusion on the panel--we have anon's opinion on it up above, but that seems a little thin. It seems much more likely that this group is out protesting what they protest at every one of these marches/meetups/protests/whatever: the idea that "illegals" are a class of people with whom we can play political football. Boston is a sanctuary city, who won't devote taxpayer resources to doing ICE's job for them, and I frankly don't give two shits what you or your bigoted uncle have to add to the discussion about it. It's not worthy of a public forum. It's a loathsome, early-20th-century mindset that the next generation will look on with the same distaste that we now have toward colored water fountains. Massachusetts wants nothing to do with it. If you host a public forum on it, you're inviting every racist-grandpa-we-still-have-to-invite-to-Thanksgiving to come out and natter on about those awful brown people in front of a captive audience. So, yes, if you invite the knuckle-draggers to come out and yell at the clouds, you can expect protesters to show up with signs. It has nothing to do with this woman, who suffered a really unfortunate tragedy that I wouldn't wish on anyone, but who also doesn't have any uniquely valuable perspective to bring to a referendum on immigration reform.

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So believing that immigration should somehow be controlled makes one a bigot? Or is it just having an opinion that differs from yours on any topic makes one a bigot? You do realize that people have differences of opinions without being a prejudiced right? I know conservative people who are more accepting of people with differing opinions that you seem to be. This whole my way or the highway political BS is why this country is in such a state as it is today. This is why a lying, cheating dickhead now resides in the white house. Congrats on being a part of the problem fool.

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So believing that immigration should somehow be controlled makes one a bigot?

No, but yelling that immigration should be controlled while failing to get off your ass and do anything useful about it could probably qualify you as a member of this Congress.

You got a dressing down because you're being a dope about this. Heaping "enforcement" on top of a fundamentally useless and broken immigration system WILL NOT WORK. It will only spend large amounts of money to further corruption and perpetrate human rights abuses. If you're down with that, hey, I won't call you a bigot if you don't like it, but I will call you a flaming idiot.

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I believe wanting the nation's immigration laws, which are more liberal than most nations, to be enforced is doing something useful.

My personal feeling is that there is room for compromise and many places where reforms can be made as far as immigration goes, but it really feels that no one wants to do the hard work, and that spans the political spectrum.

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I believe wanting the nation's immigration laws, which are more liberal than most nations, to be enforced is doing something useful.

Do you also wish for a pony? Wishing for something without acting to accomplish it is not "doing something useful" in my book.

As for "wanting the nation's immigration laws...to be enforced", who exactly do you think should be responsible for that? Local cops?

My personal feeling is that there is room for compromise and many places where reforms can be made as far as immigration goes, but it really feels that no one wants to do the hard work, and that spans the political spectrum.

Amazingly, I believe that I said that very thing upthread. It's worth noting, though, at what incentivizes the parties who could act to create such reforms to not act. In many cases, they're simultaneously throwing red meat in the form of lies and distortions about immigrants to their ignorant voter bases, while personally profiting from prison/enforcement/militarization industries that make bank on our current fucked-up system. tl;dr: follow the money, or the stink, and see where it leads you.

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"...and I frankly don't give two shits what you or your bigoted uncle have to add to the discussion about it. It's not worthy of a public forum."

And so it goes. Downhill. With your assumptions about me, my uncles and my views on immigration policy.

"It's a loathsome, early-20th-century mindset that the next generation will look on with the same distaste that we now have toward colored water fountains."

I happen to like colored water fountains. As far as the rest of your comment, it deserves no rebuttal because it's all just assumed bullshit.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/ZpkFSLb.jpg)

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Ok, one more time, when one assumes people are bigoted without knowing, you make an ass out of yourself and your comments have the potential not to win anyone to your side. (i.e. you may even create more Trump supporters, many who will view you as an elitist a*swhole. I, personally , do not want another four years of him.)

And just because someone voted for Trump, by way of an example, does not mean that they are automatically racist.

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Collect garbage, etc.

What ... beneath you? Really? Well, you're just spoiled.

These are the jobs that immigrants - and mostly undocumented immigrants - do for you, for our region, for our economy.

It would serve you right to be forced to take such work.

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Undocumented immigrants are making $25 off the books as nannies here in Massachusetts. Not so bad

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Illegal Immigrants dont collect garbage as they arent legally allowed to obtain a CDL.

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out of the trash.

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What does the Arabic Evangelical Baptist Church? If it's just that it's across from the Elk's Lodge I'm not sure what the point is. If it figures into the immigration discussion, how so? Do the congregants favor or disfavor sanctuary cities? Do they want more or less Muslim immigration?

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I would hope that a church for Arabs is pro-sanctuary, especially since many Arab refugees are Christians. It isn't?

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The Center for Immigration Studies which sponsored this event at the Elks is listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a "hate group." It was founded by John Tanton, a white nationalist.

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Bampumim Teixeira, the green card holder and two time ARMED bank robber who slashed the throats of two talented doctors, is grateful.

The media silence on the scandal that saw a prosecutor agree to lowering charges of ARMED bank robbery to larceny from a person (pickpocket) and then a judge imposing a 364 day sentence because 365 would trigger Teixeira's deportation is an atrocity but largely ignored by the dutiful media. Cameras should be camped outside the home of D.A. Conley and Judge Lisa Grant until both resign. Instead, crickets.

I emphasize ARMED because case law is clear, if you threaten to rob someone and mention a gun and have time to dispose it before arrest, it's ARMED robbery, whether the gun is shown or not. Even worse, the case was air-tight, Channel 7 found the teller who was very credible and the bank video was clear but just "pickpocketing" for the immigrant when a life sentence and deportation were possible. Sick.

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I dare you to prove that they had visas before they even got here.

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Framed in my home office!

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Ditto. I also have pics of my parents with their sponsors when they came to this country. Legally.

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You have your grandparents' framed visas, issued before they arrived in the US? Do tell. When did they come and from where?

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Do you have your grandparents papers? What the hell does that have to do with fish's post, except to display your disdain for opinions that differ from yours? Another elitist asshole, whodathunkit.

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Because they weren't required for much of US history.

Grow up, please - knowledge is not elitist, it is a sign of maturity and acceptance of the reality that very few people in this country are descended from legal migrants.

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Surprisingly no. Not a single mention.

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Keep on fuckin' that chicken, buddy.

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